Process Week Continues, + Birthday Greetings...

[j_cheney]

Happy belated birthday to dotar_sojat and more timely salutations to sarah_prineas and babarnett!

Ah now, on to the boring stuff.

Drafts.
ROUGH DRAFT
Some people produce a first draft. I produce a "rough" draft the first time out.

After I've got a basic idea of the outline of events in a story (and I do mean basic), the setting, and the characters, I do a rough draft. I start at the beginning and try to write straight to the end. Sometimes that doesn't happen. I'll get to a scene I'm sketchy on, and skip past it with just a few notes to hold it's place:

Imogen laid one hand to her breast, nerves suddenly making her stomach flutter. ANNOUNCER?
Mother Hawkes clutched her other hand. The trainers bolted away RACE RACE RACE

ANNOUNCER? RACE RACE RACE?

This is why I don't consider it a first draft. It's not really readable. Sometimes the ending is also sketchy, usually because I know I'll change things later.


FIRST DRAFT
After completing the RD, I usually let it percolate for at least a week. Then I go back and start inserting the things I need to clear up. I will probably have done some research between RD and FD, and usually end up slipping in a couple of extra scenes.

One of the things that's true about my FDs is that the setting and descriptions will still be lightly drawn. I don't worry about those so much here. They'll be fleshed out in the later drafts.

This is where I'll try to get the first readings done, though. To check out the story arcs, and make certain action and dialog make sense.


SECOND THROUGH TENTH DRAFTS
All right, a bit of exaggeration there, but I do like to keep tweaking. The bulk of description gets inserted here, what little description I do use. I'd say that most things go through at least four drafts before I consider them ready to go out.


So, how many drafts do you do? How many before you let anyone see it?

Comments

[kara-gnome.livejournal.com]

I tend to write pretty good first drafts (LH notwithstanding :D) and then do a rewrite right from that draft. Sometimes things change drastically and sometimes hardly at all, but I think the key is, is to just get out of my own way.

That said, I'm not really a very good rewriter or tweaker, probably because I'm a much better getter-in-the-way person. It seems like I lose sight of my story the further I get from that first draft.

I feel I'm better with other people's stories and seeing what that other writer should do (LOL), but I've learned to keep all such notions to myself. Or I really do try, I should say ;D

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I think the important part is that you write your drafts in the way that works best for you. If you're a first draft person, go with it. I'm definitely not.

You can probably put out work much faster than I do.

[kara-gnome.livejournal.com]

I put out work extremely fast but have to hope for high quality first pop out of the box. It's a crap-shot for sure, erratic to say the least.

Pluses and minuses no matter what, I guess.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Always the case, isn't it. ;o)

[michaeldthomas.livejournal.com]

Thanks for friending me. :)

Since I've only written the one novel, I can't say that I have a "process" yet. In my case, I made a very loose plot outline, some character outlines, and a pile of worldbuilding notes. I then just wrote the novel from start to finish. Very little of my outline made it into the finished first draft.

I decided not to revise it until it was complete since revising as I went killed the momentum of my earlier writing projects.

Once I had a completed rough draft, I went back and revised the novel. It was mostly just cleaning things up.

Now that I have had my first workshop, I'm about to start the second revision. This one will probably lead to some major structural changes.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Sometimes when I see people posting, I'll go and look at their page and see if they're interesting (and not bizarre)...and if they are I'll friend them. It's always nice to know more writers.

I've noticed that my original sketchy outline holds up for about 2/3 of the draft....and then I have to trash it and do a new one for the remaining part of the book. As I go along, I'm sometimes pulled off the track by something within the story. That even seems to happen in short stories, from which one can either determine that I'm flexible....or wishy-washy. ;o)

Good luck with the major structural changes. That's the part that's hard. That level of revision means that every last scene has to be reconsidered. ::sighs::

[rcloenen-ruiz.livejournal.com]

I tend to be a many drafts person. From time to time, I'll write a first draft that feels just right, but most of the time I write a first draft, tweak it. Let it lie. Then go back and tinker with it until it reads just the way I want it to.

I do have some stories that go through several different incarnations before I find the one that matches the vision inside my head. I know, it sounds all "heebie-jeebie" but it's like finally recognizing that it's "that" story.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

No, I understand exactly what you mean. I've got some that I've been sitting on for MONTHS because I"m waiting for them to feel 'right'.

[vaughan-stanger.livejournal.com]

With me, it's endless drafts and iterations and prevarications. My writers group started to worry (and then laugh) when I introduced version numbers, like 5.4. Not joking (wish I were). It is not a good process, that's for sure, but I seem incapable of writing any other way, except for short-shorts, which I sometimes nail first time or after a single round of edits.

This may explain why I'm so slow to get stuff "out there". 23 stories and no novels in 12 years. Sigh.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I do understand. I try to balance between getting things 'word perfect' and getthing them out, but it's always a hard call.

There's a guy in my RL group who's been working on the same novel for something like 14 years. And that's it. No SS, no other novels.

That's where we should never go. Then we know we've gone too far!

[countesslovlace.livejournal.com]

I slog through until I have a rough draft which I then revise into a first draft. This gets critted by my writers group and any CW and Literary Bootcamp classmates I can sucker into it. Then I revise it into a second draft and send it out. Sometimes I revise after it's been too a few markets, especially if an editor comments specifically about something in it.

I actually think I like the revising process slightly better than the writing process. I enjoy tinkering with the manuscript.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I like the revising too (perhaps too much).

I wish I could do 2 drafts and send it out. I'm just not that disciplined yet!

[countesslovlace.livejournal.com]

Ah but sometimes it takes a long time and a lot of rerevising before I'm through with that second draft.

And then there's my novel which is on its fourth draft or twentieth draft depending on how you define draft.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

"...depending on how you define draft."

Well, that is a good point. Computers make it so much easier to niggle and tweak things endlessly. ;o)

[babarnett.livejournal.com]

I'm often a rough draft kind of gal too. I throw brackets all over the place so it ends up looking like Blah blah blah [INSERT CLEVER THING HERE]. Blah blah [RESEARCH THIS] blah blah. Blah blah [BETTER WORD?] blah.

And thanks for the birthday wishes!

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

You're welcome, and I'm so happy to see I'm not the only one who inserts notes like that. I think all three of those have appeared in my writing at one point or another!

[pabba.livejournal.com]

Two drafts for me, 99% of the time. There's the zero draft where I have a beginning, a middle, and an end...and then a first draft after I've gone through it in one sitting and fixed up the story on a line level. Then it can be read by whoever dares volunteers!

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

WOW, I don't know how you do it! Those space aliens are going to be in a magazine next week!

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

This post has gotten me thinking, and I may have a more detailed response of my own in a week or so...

In the meanwhile, however, I don't have a "novel process" yet because I'm so new to novel writing. I've posted FLocked rough snippets, but I would not want to send a draft out to readers until I've given it another run-through.

I'm not at this point putting in "WRITE CLEVER BIT HERE," but that may change... I have done that with short stories, and I've often found that it doesn't make anything easier for me in the long run. :-/

With short stories? I read a blog post some time back about how word processors have meant the end of true drafts, and I think that's sort of true for me. Individual stories may get anywhere from 10-40 pass-throughs, depending on the needs of the story. The shorter end of things is for stories that come together smoothly and naturally. The higher end is for stories that are more complex or difficult, where I go through checking various elements: is the voice right, does the description match what the VP character would see and comment on, etc.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

My main thing I'm editing for is "do all the ends tie up."

I like neat final drafts, where I have everything taken care of, the plot worked out so that the climax falls at 90% or so....that sort of thing. I like my story arcs to land neatly. But I do look for those things, too (voice, desc). They definitely fall into later drafts, though.

[tlmorganfield.livejournal.com]

I start with a first draft, going straight through and leaving nothing out (and I do mean nothing. I'll typically end up cutting about 30% of what I wrote in that first draft). I don't worry about shoddy grammar and horrible word choices or repetitions. I just let my brain spew whatever it wants all over the page. Typically I don't allow anyone to see this draft because it's horrid. It's a lot of thinking on the fly and making things up as I go along. (Though I will note that I don't work this way at all with novels. They're too long and too complicated to leave to chance like this, so outlines kind of take the place of "1st draft".)

For second draft, I go over what I wrote and decide what's necessary and what I did right and what to cut on a macro level, then I sit down and retype the manuscript, working on editing the prose and integrating plot and character changes. Once I've got that done, then I send it out for critique.

After critique, I let the comments stew in my head for a week or two, to see if new ideas crop up. Then I retype again, fine-tuning the prose still more and integrating my new ideas. Depending on how I'm feeling about the story, I might run my new version past another set of critiquers, to see if I pulled off what I wanted to, and if I haven't, I'll do another draft of macro fine-tuning before calling it good and ready to hit the markets. I may or may not retype, depending on how off the mark I feel I am.

Once it's out at market, I try not to look at it again, unless I get a response back that points out a flaw or such. But basically, I don't do any further drafts except at editorial request.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

The re-typing doesn't work for me, (we talked about that a bit back at WFC) but I can see how it's part of your process. Again, if it works, keep it....

You're more disciplined that I am about getting it out. I do hit a point where I'm done revising (unless I get an edit request, which I'm usually happy to do) but it's usually a few versions further out than yours, it seems.

I've also found that for the rough draft, I have to put in everything. I usually do end up cutting some scenes or sub-plots later (after the first draft), but I get them all laid out in the beginning, just in case I need them later ;o)

[tlmorganfield.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I retype because I'm a lazy editor, too prone to settle. Retyping doesn't allow me to be lazy:-)

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Interesting way to look at it....I'd probably be looking for some way around that ;o)

[queenoftheskies.livejournal.com]

How many drafts I do depends completely on the story itself.

Sometimes, I have rough drafts that are fairly clean and need only tweaking along with more description and things I leave out as I write so I can get the story down.

Sometimes, the story evolves along the way into something deeper, much better, and then I have to rearrange and write another rough draft before I'm ready to really edit.

I don't have anyone that's itching to read my work, but if I did, it would probably be the third draft on most before I'd let it out for comments. Some, of course, earlier. A few later.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Each story does vary from the basic pattern. And I've done the 'redo the whole thing' before as well. It can be frustrating, but at times it really works.

[gwyndolin.livejournal.com]

Working on my third book now, I think I've settled into a method that works for me. I start at the beginning and write straight through to about the midpoint of the book. By this point, I've introduced everyone and everything and have layered in all the threads I need. The story changes as I write it, so by chapter six I may be writing as though there were a completely different chapter two than physically exists at that time.

At the halfway point, I make a rough outline of the rest (more of a bullet point list of key phrases) to make sure I know about where I'm going, then start writing again, usually as I start doing revisions on the beginning parts to make it synch up again.

I've got a couple other writers with whom I trade the words as they're being written -- not for critique or anything, but we keep each other honest and give encouragement (or scolding) when someone's output starts to slack. It's nice being accountable to other people.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

The story changes as I write it, so by chapter six I may be writing as though there were a completely different chapter two than physically exists at that time.

I go back to the very beginning of the manuscript and write a note to myself to make certain I don't forget those changes I'm planning. Stupid things sometimes, too...

WHERE IS KIRIEN'S WATCH?
HAVE THE GUARD NOTICE THE NAME IN THE NOTEBOOK.

That sort of notes. The draft does change as I write it, but I want to get it done, so I don't go back and change things then....

process

[safewrite.livejournal.com]

Lawrence, you sound like me. Only in my process the ROUGH draft, as you term it, is more of a bullet-pointed outline. First I write a basic story arc, then I decide little tings like who the characters are, and what POV & tense it will be in. Then I write scene descriptions. Each scene gets a bullet point. I then move the bullet points around until the chronology, pacing and flow look good to me. Like you, I may add a scene or two both at this point and later.

You expand from a terse RD? I expand each bullet point scene in waves. The waves consist of dialog, grounding, the five senses & metaphor/simile descriptions. When writing novels I tend to do the pivotal scenes first, because that way I can make the subplots dance around the pivots more easily so that everything ties together.

Re: process

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I write dialog and body language first, like blocking a scene. everything else seems to come later.

I don't know about pivotal scenes. If I write them first, then by the time I get to them in the plot, the plot might have skewed some, so I end up having wasted the time. I should outline better, but I don't seem to have a gift for it.

[theladywolf.livejournal.com]

I'm a little bit like that, but less confidently. For example, when I write my equivalent of RACE, etc, I worry that I'll never get it right even when I go back, or that I won't get things to tie together. But they do.
I think I have a pre rough draft stage, and then I can rewrite for ever. To the point where I frequently only submit the damn thing so I can quit working on it for a while. :)

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

The 'rewrite forever' phase is a dangerous one. I'm trying to learn to control that. ;o)

[dotar-sojat.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the B-day shout-out! Almost 40... sobering.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Oh, get over it...

[ken-schneyer.livejournal.com]

My first draft isn't assembled in linear fashion, usually. The first things I write are the scenes (or even the individual lines) that come through most vividly, often including the last few paragraphs of the story. Then I take a crack at the beginning. I keep writing in this haphazard fashion until I've already written everything fun, then I slog through the transitions (which I hate) and the "from point A to point B" bits.

What I have at the end of this is a first draft, but a wildly uneven one in terms of tone and attack. So I do a smooth-through, trying to even it out and make it uniform. That's the official "first draft."

Then I put it in a drawer for six weeks. (Yes, I'm taking Stephen King's advice. Why not?)

Then I go through it again, looking for glaring errors and trying to find the unifying themes or metaphors, and I add, subtract or revise to satisfy those themes or metaphors.

This is the draft I show to people. It's always officially "version 2.0".

I'll show 2.0 to 4-8 readers, asking them to tell me "This part works, that part doesn't, here's why." I look for common threads across different readers, especially of the "That part doesn't work" variety. I also look for comments that strike the "Dang, I knew that was going to happen" chord.

Version 3.0 is based on those comments. This is either the most fun part or the scariest part of the writing, depending on my mood.

Version 4.0 is a smoothing out of 3.0. I might show it to a few more people, or I might just send it out.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

You've got it worked out well ;o)

[kelly-swails.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I'm pretty organic in my process. Uusally I start with a rough outline, and by rough I mean I have scribbles on a few sheets of notebook paper that has a beginning and an end and a few characters and that's it. I'll write about a third of it before I discover my "outline" is horribly wrong, so I rewrite the outline and edit what I have. I'll get about 2/3 of the way done when I figure out the real ending is not at all how I envisioned it, so I rewrite the outline, edit what I have, then finish the book. At this point I send it to beta readers who tell me I have the wrong ending (or the wrong motivations or terrible characters or whatever) and so I edit and rewrite the whole thing. Once more to the readers and then it's done. So ... five drafts, but the first three could almost be counted as one.

I think "process" posts are so fascinating. So many ways, all of them right.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

But oddly, the majority of us seem pretty similar.

--sketchy outlines
--which we abandon part-way through the RD
--write a new outline
--finish RD
--re-write RD
--send it out to readers.

You have an added reader step, but the vast majority of people I've seen today hit most of these.

I was heartened to learn that I'm not the only one who ends up off on an unknown road that my outline never sent me to....

recalculating...