It's all about the Dead Bodies

[j_cheney]

Someone over at the Codex forum posted a question "How many people have you killed in fiction?" (A paraphrase, actually)

I had to laugh about that, as I've used the motto "It's all about the Dead Bodies" before, and even considered using that to title my blog.

Of course, some people, like wistling, have killed off entire planets, so they're overacheivers. I, however, do seem to have a tendency to rack up a body count.


So I looked back at what I've sold and came up with a strange listing:
The Stains of the Past (TSR) Well, I did burn down a metropolitan city. And I do have that lovely climactic scene that takes place in the back of the church where the protag is trying to identify corpses.

Touching the Dead (JBU) Need I say more?

A Hand for Each (Shimmer) I did kill off the entire complement of a sailing ship here...

Masks of War (Fantasy) Took out a handful of soldiers...

The Dragon's Child (BCS) Ditto, plus one wizard.

Taking a Mile (WOTF) Yes, I killed one of the main characters.

The Bear Girl (Wolfsongs) Two of the characters die.

Forthcoming:
Afterimage (JBU) This starts with a detective standing over a dead body--starts that way--so it's not spoilery to admit it.

Early Winter, Near Jenli Village (Fantasy) I'm not going to say anything about this one.

Iron Shoes (Alembical) Ditto, but trust me.

In all honesty, I did have one flash published wherein no one dies. But my unpublished stories (save one) seem to have a similar body count. Unpublished novels---they've got it, too. The WIP? Yep, I can think of two off hand, and one nastily violent attack (scalpel to face stuff, sorry)

And I do have a story out with no deaths in it, but one scene takes place in a graveyard (modelled on the Necropolis in Glasgow, of course). Does that count?

Why does this happen? Because death is a part of the world we live in? ::shrugs::

Comments

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

I've had similar thoughts myself of late. There is a notable paucity of guns, murder, etc. in my day-to-day life, but those things (among others) have appeared with some regularity in my fiction. Why? Is it just that it's easier to write about dramatic things? Death catches people's attention? Dunno, but it's one to ponder.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I tend to think of my writing as more 'gentle', but I suspect that in this genre, there have to be 'high stakes'--namely death--to make a story sell.

I've had an editor tell me before that the stakes weren't 'high enough' in a story about a woman who doesn't want to miscarry her child or lose her niece (you've read that story, BTW). His remark was along the lines of 'she can always have more children.'

It makes me wonder if our society is so hardened to meanness that death is the only real threat...

[jtglover.livejournal.com]

Or if editors also go for the obvious hook. This is what I (sometimes) like about literary fiction: the conflict/stakes can be lower key. I really would like to be able to write and sell quiet fantasies about the inner lives of magicians, satyrs, etc., but I think these are a hard sell. Established authors can get away with all sorts of things on name value...

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Some day.... ;o)

[displacedtexan.livejournal.com]

And yet, none of them have died falling on the spikey fence.

There's a dark side to you I didn't know about before we got married!

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

None of the published ones involves a spiky fence.....

[tchernabyelo.livejournal.com]

You remind of Margaret Atwwod.

When asked why poeple tended to die in her stories, her response was "Because the story isn't over until everybody's dead."

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I don't write science fiction...oh, wait, that's her.

One of the things I was contemplating is that death is often a 'tidy' ending in a story. If you read mysteries (particularly cosy mysteries) you'll find that a surprisingly high percentage of the murderers kill themselves or manage to get killed. This eliminates the need for the author to prepare 'evidence' for the courtroom, and gives the reader a bit of emotional 'closure'.

I have to admit that I've done that once, because even if the bad guy was discovered, he would still always be a problem since he lived next door. So I killed him off. Voila!

Tidier ending than "and they had an uncomfortable relationship all the rest of their days."

[alaneer.livejournal.com]

No, the Necropolis does not count.

I think the reason we need death in SF is that there is no bigger threat than that, except maybe in my Warrior Wisewoman 2 story. In that, the whole population of the asteroid dies. But compared to Neil Asher, for example, you and I are minor killers of characters. In his novels, entire planetful of people die.

I hadn't thought about this before your post, but once I've gotten comments from an editor on a mystery fantasy in which no one dies that the stakes are not high enough, and that I should try a literary market. That story, (not sold yet) and two others that I've sold, are the only one in which no one dies.

And the submissions we get are also riddled with bodies and ashes of worlds. Some are so dark that the entire Human species is dead.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

...also riddled with bodies and ashes of worlds.

I'll bet you do!

I made a comment to John above about the 'stakes not high enough' comment I got from an editor, also. Which might be what drives us to kill...

[kmarkhoover.livejournal.com]

Many of my stories have a high body count.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

We're just a blood-thirsty lot!

[parishwhittaker.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's unique to SF. I remember a (half-joking) discussion on a literary fiction forum asking how many there had a character who didn't die at the end. Few did! And let's not forget the grand western themes of tragedy, from Sophocles to Shakespeare to P.G. Wodehouse.

Ok, not Wodehouse.

I think you're right, it's akin to the final wrap. Not much to say after the worms arrive. But if you don't kill them, there still has to be some sense that the story is over. Looking at literary examples again, Austen always married them off, but to a spinster like her, perhaps that felt as final a death. Then again, Emily Bronte had no trouble depicting a dysfunctional marriage--and she ends Wuthering Heights with death and marriage.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, that it's the finality of it. Although marriage isn't 'final' it's still the ending of that sort of novel. I suspect that Spec-Fic just isn't wowed by that ending.

One of mine ends with a death and a marriage...so don't make fun of me.

[displacedtexan.livejournal.com]

Although marriage isn't 'final'...

I'm glad you added "of that sort of novel"!

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

::rolls eyes::

[displacedtexan.livejournal.com]

I watched Great Performances' "King Lear" on PBS last night. Shakespeare did like to end things rather bloodily, and KL is a satisfactorily dark story. However, I kept wondering what will happen with the line of succession. The king and daughters are all dead, other nobles dead...who's going to run the country now? Can they avert a big civil war, or will they just invite the French in, who were already there, yet beaten, naturally, anyway. It wasn't a tidy ending for me.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Hamlet was also untidy in that way...

[ckastens.livejournal.com]

I've wiped out 90+% of the Earth's population twice, but mostly off-camera.
I don't tend to put much carnage into my stories in general.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I think we're kinder than most ;o)

[babarnett.livejournal.com]

I usually think I've killed off more characters than I actually have, to the point that when I actually do count 'em up, I find myself feeling strangely ashamed for not having killed off nearly enough. So on that note, must...kill...more...characters...

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

::snorts::!

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Maybe I don't kill enough people...

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Is that on-stage, direct action and characters we know by name, or in general?

Because on-stage, probably under a hundred. But in Dark Winter (the scene depicted in this Userpic) I easily reach six figures.

(Yeah, if you like that, it's available at Double Dragon Press, Fictionwise and in Amazon Kindle, she said, in a rare moment of Shameless Self Promotion.)

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Promote away...

I'm thinking 'on-stage'

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Better yet, get Between Worlds with it and have a Carpe Libris set! ;)

(And yes, it has a fair share of Killed Characters.)

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

;o)

[isleburroughs.livejournal.com]

I need to catch up and raise the stakes. It gives me the heebeejeebees to kill off characters.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

The first one is the hardest. Once you've taken the leap, it gets a bit easier each time. Most of the body count in Dark Winter is not named. I do set an army of zombies loose on the countryside. And the not-so-countryside...

[isleburroughs.livejournal.com]

Ouch,Jen;o) I live in the country. *hitting zombie attached to my arm*

Comparatively I don't have enough bodies. I seem to be squeamish in that regard.

I think those editors are right about more death and I was wondering what would make my detective novel more compelling. You'd think I'd have a higher body count with a murder mystery. Perhaps mine needs more.

Good subject. I'm glad you brought it up, J.. I'm learning so much on lj.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Dark Winter is, hands down, my highest body count.

The thing about a body count is that we get more emotionally involved with characters if they're experiencing grief, or fear, or other such things.

[isleburroughs.livejournal.com]

Ohhhhhh...

*I'm having a lightbulb moment*

Thanks.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Glad you're learning ;o)

[countesslovlace.livejournal.com]

Well now, the main character of the story I just finished is dead, okay she's a ghost, actually two ghosts, for all but the first section. And only three of the characters are alive at the end. Most of the characters in it are Undead.

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

I don't think it counts if they start off dead.... ;o)

[isleburroughs.livejournal.com]

*giggle*

Countess got me thinking how do you kill the undead? But you do have to kill zombies or they'll eat you. So how do you kill a vampire if it's already dead?

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

With Mr. Pointy, of course!


As far as zombies go, allow me to quote myself, "Set a thief to catch a thief, set a necromancer to...."

[isleburroughs.livejournal.com]

Ewww...LOL! Yeah, how come zombies don't eat other zombies?

[parishwhittaker.livejournal.com]

Zombies always check the expiration dates on their food (they're fastidious that way)