j_cheney: (The Thinking Angel)
J. Kathleen Cheney ([personal profile] j_cheney) wrote2009-01-16 07:23 am
Entry tags:

Forward progress...

No work on DD yesterday, but I did rewrite section 4 of IS.

Once again, I'm supposed to have a great day. Given how normal most of my recently-predicted 'great days' have been, I'll take this with a grain of salt.
As far as your work is concerned, today may well be the day where you get the green light for something you have been waiting for...an issue is being resolved, you are gaining acceptance. Who knows, there might even be a promotion on the cards. But most definitely, your situation will be more secure.

Talked last night with a friend about what gets a book sold (someone who's also getting no love from agents).

I think there are 5 contributing factors, and one need not have all five to break through:
1) Talent
2) Perseverance
3) Marketability
(like being a sixteen-year-old, or recently dead, or having talked to a Presidential candidate)
4) Knowing the right people
5) Luck
(the editor/agent doesn't spill coffee on their pants and use your query to mop it up.)

Any other thoughts that don't fit into that list of 5?

[identity profile] sarah-prineas.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 01:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Serendipity. Which is kind of like luck, but means all the other things lined up at the right time, too. Maybe synchronicity is a better term.

Also, I think of the five that #4 and #3 are the least important. The axis, in my opinion, is luck, talent, and perseverance, plus the synchronicity...

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 01:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I originally had Timing on the list, but took it off, but I think it dovetails with synchronicity pretty well.

#3 and #4 are the kind of things that will get a first book published (like Joe the Plumber's book, or the book by that 16-year-old Harvard applicatn that later turned out to be partially plaigarized). They will not help build a career, but they do, at times, get people published who otherwise would not be.

[identity profile] sarah-prineas.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 02:24 pm (UTC)(link)
True, but they don't generally apply. I mean, for the vast majority of books...

The term you want for #3 is "Platform."

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I think that's a good word for it. Basically, something around which to mobilize interest....

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 02:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Don't forget the Eragon kid. He's a mix of #3 & #4 -- a 16 year old who has family in publishing.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I think the Marketability came in with his age....oooh, look, a story written by a kid!

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that's what I thought, too. I only saw the movie - and if the movie is ANYTHING like the book, I saw ALL the other books/movies he ripped from - and not creatively. But he was 16...

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, it was somewhat....derivative....

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Let's see, I saw it once, and this is what I remember:

Star Wars, Star Trek, Anne McCaffrey

I know there were others, but it's been a while. We've all done our derivative work - mostly when we were 16 - and there's a reason they were never published.

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
The shuddery part is that he then went on to write what? Three more? And in the meantime, did he learn ANY craft?

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 08:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I haven't read them to know....can't bear the thought of parting with the money.

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 09:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, me either. I didn't feel like spending the money on those *or* the Twilight series.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
;o)

[identity profile] sarah-prineas.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm. You should do this again, but this time for how to have a writing career beyond the first-book-sold. Could be interesting!

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Now that is a totally different proposition. Perhaps I'll think about it tomorrow.

I was distressed once when a very talented author got dropped by a publisher...who had just picked up another author for a 3-hardback deal.

The old author had fabulous reviews, is well respected, but the series they put out wasn't quite 'blockbustery' enough, and the publisher stopped promoting it after the second book.

The new author had good blurbs from a couple of really famous people, went to the right workshops, etc.....and when his first 'blockbuster' novel came out, Publisher's Weekly panned it (and yes, the panning was deserved). They didn't review the two sequels.

Lesson learned by me? Nothing guarantees that you'll get the next contract. The publishing world is fickle. You jsut have to keep trying....which is where #2 comes in, I guess.

[identity profile] david-de-beer.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 04:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Serendipity. Which is kind of like luck, but means all the other things lined up at the right time, too. Maybe synchronicity is a better term

you know, you have just summarized Malcom Gladwell's entire book in one line -- The Outliers.
it examines the succesful and often how surprisingly fortunate they were to be in the right place at the right time and with the right background.
luck is far more prevalent than most people are comfortable with, re: success in any venture.

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 01:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you forgot either the "Holding the tongue just right" or "The stars aligning just right" as a contributing factor -- it's a bit more skill than simply "luck" 8-)

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 01:59 pm (UTC)(link)
hmmmm....cand talg ride now, hab tong held ride

[identity profile] reudaly.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 02:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, that took me way too long to figure out. 8-)

I probably need more coffee.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Nah, my brains just fuzzy. Although coffee sounds good right now...

[identity profile] scbutler.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 02:17 pm (UTC)(link)
You may not need all 5, but I think you have to have number 5. As with all things. But having the other four in sufficient quantity sure gives you more of number 5.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 05:54 pm (UTC)(link)
A good point ;o)

[identity profile] alaneer.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 02:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with Sarah; synchronicity is an important factor.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll listen to The Police more... ;o)

[identity profile] gwyndolin.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I think number 2 is the big one, without which the rest don't matter. Talent grows if you work at it. Luck only happens if you keep showing up to let it.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
That is true....

[identity profile] displacedtexan.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I've read plenty of books that left me believing that numbers 4 and 5 are the only ways they could get published. Those by an author with the initials of "DB" come to mind.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
...whose name will never be mentioned here again....

[identity profile] babarnett.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 04:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd agree that all five of those elements. I'd suspect that #5 is the big one, though, as it can encompass all the others. Though for the writer, that makes #2 the important thing, as luck seems to be rather unpredictable in its appearances. And judging by some of the stuff that does get picked up, I don't think #1 is nearly as important as I'd like to think it is.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
That is sadly true. If the world were fair, then #1 would be the only important one. However, I do think #1 is somewhat important for a continued career, although not a guarantee of it.

[identity profile] david-de-beer.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
#1 is an attribute awarded to a writer after success has been obtained. It would be embarassing to proclaim talent and said talent then gets nowhere.
this way is much better.

I can live with all those things, and agree, but have to admit that #4 really rubs me the wrong way. just the very concept, and yet it's undeniably true.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
#4 rubs me the wrong way, too.

One of the nice things about the WSFA award is that the stories will be judged blind. The stories have to stand on their own, so 2,3, and 4 won't come into play. That always makes me hopeful ;o)

I could father about that, but I figure you already know what I would say, so I won't waste your time ;o)

[identity profile] rcloenen-ruiz.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Good luck on the WSFA again. I think you've got a very strong story going there. Makes me wish I could vote.

#1 goes nowhere without #2, and alas in this highly competetive world #5 seems to count more than #4. Still, I'll go with 4. I'm not so sure about #3, because how do you know it's marketable? Only the reading audience can put a book on the map. Harry Potter was put on the map by its readers.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 09:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Here I'm specifically addressing getting a first book published. Not a popular first book, not a good first book, just a first book.

On #3, the most obvious instance recently is that "Joe the Plumber" has already gotten a book published, despite the fact that he isn't a writer. He's simply momentarily famous, and therefore the publisher thinks "Oh, hey, a book from this guy could make us money".

Or the 3-book deal that Fabio got to write romance novels, without having written any. Only because people know who he is.

[identity profile] rcloenen-ruiz.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
*slaps forehead* I get it. Brain is going slowpoke on me. Hmmm...so if I somehow did something spectacular I would get a book deal because of that. Even I know who is Joe the Plumber and I can see how that would be marketable, because I would probably buy a book too, just to see how funny it is or how serious or probably just out of curiousity.

[identity profile] j-cheney.livejournal.com 2009-01-16 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
He's gotten a job as a war correspondent for a news agency now....I'll bet he has great qualifications for that, too!